Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/03/1994 01:00 PM House CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
              HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS                             
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                        February 3, 1994                                       
                            1:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman                                       
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative Cynthia Toohey                                                
  Representative Ed Willis                                                     
  Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice Chair                                     
  Representative Bill Williams                                                 
                                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
                                                                               
  Senator George Jacko                                                         
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  SB 42:     "An Act relating to municipal taxation                            
              of alcoholic beverages."                                         
                                                                               
              CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD) PASSED FROM                            
              COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS RECOMMENDATION                          
                                                                               
  *HB 322:   "An Act relating to the regulation of                             
              alcohol in state parks, recreation areas,                        
              and historic sites."                                             
                                                                               
              PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS                             
              RECOMMENDATION                                                   
                                                                               
  HB 397:    "An Act relating to the power to levy                             
              property taxes in second class cities                            
              and to combine a property tax and                                
              incorporation question."                                         
                                                                               
              SSHB PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO                             
              PASS RECOMMENDATION                                              
                                                                               
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  SENATOR GEORGE JACKO                                                         
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 125                                                      
  Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                       
  Phone: 465-4942                                                              
  Position Statement:  Sponsor of CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD)                    
                                                                               
  JAMES L. FISK, JR.                                                           
  Diamond Jim's                                                                
  P.O. Box 2068                                                                
  Kodiak, AK  99615                                                            
  Phone: 486-7088                                                              
  Position Statement:  Opposed to CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD)                    
                                                                               
  ALICE JOHNSTONE                                                              
  213 Shotgun Alley                                                            
  Sitka, AK  99835                                                             
  Phone: 747-3931                                                              
  Position Statement:  Supports CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD)                      
                                                                               
  GARRY LANGILLE, President                                                    
  Kodiak Island Liquor License Association                                     
  512 Marine Way                                                               
  Kodiak, AK  99615                                                            
  Phone: 486-2700                                                              
  Position Statement:  Opposed to CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD)                    
                                                                               
  TIM TROLL, City Administrator                                                
  City of Sand Point                                                           
  1600 A Street, #103                                                          
  Anchorage, AK  99501                                                         
  Phone: 274-7555                                                              
  Position Statement:  Supported CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD)                     
                                                                               
  KENT SWISHER, Executive Director                                             
  Alaska Municipal League                                                      
  217 Second Street, Suite 200                                                 
  Juneau, AK  99801                                                            
  Phone: 586-1325                                                              
  Position Statement:  Supported CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD)                     
                                                                               
  BRYCE EDGMON, Legislative Staff                                              
  Senator George Jacko                                                         
  State Capitol, Room 125                                                      
  Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                       
  Phone: 465-4942                                                              
  Position Statement:  Staff to Sponsor of CSSB 42 (CRA) AM                    
                       (EFD FLD)                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT                                                     
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 409                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Phone: 465-3777                                                              
  Position Statement:  Sponsor of HB 322                                       
                                                                               
  PETER PANARESE, Chief, Field Operations                                      
  Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation                                     
  Department of Natural Resources                                              
  P.O. Box 107001                                                              
  Anchorage, AK  99510-7001                                                    
  Phone: 762-2603                                                              
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 322                                        
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  SB  42                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: LOCAL SALES TAX ON ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES                          
  SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) JACKO                                                 
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/11/93        26    (S)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/8/93                          
  01/11/93        26    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME\REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        26    (S)   CRA, LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                   
  02/25/93              (S)   CRA AT 9:00 AM BUTRVICH RM 205                   
  02/25/93              (S)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  03/02/93              (S)   CRA AT 9:00 AM BUTRVICH RM 205                   
  03/04/93              (S)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  03/09/93              (S)   CRA AT 9:00 AM BUTRVICH RM 205                   
  03/09/93              (S)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  03/10/93       706    (S)   CRA RPT CS 1DP 3NR SAME TITLE                    
  03/10/93       706    (S)   ZERO FN TO SB & CS (DCRA)                        
  03/16/93              (S)   L&C AT 1:45 PM FAHRENKAMP                        
                              RM 203                                           
  03/16/93              (S)   MINUTE(L&C)                                      
  03/16/93              (S)   MINUTE(L&C)                                      
  03/18/93       844    (S)   L&C RPT  5NR (CRA)CS                             
  03/18/93       844    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DCRA)                          
  03/25/93       942    (S)   FIN RPT  5DP (CRA)CS                             
  03/25/93       942    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DCRA)                          
  03/25/93              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FIN 518                   
  03/25/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  03/29/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  04/05/93      1104    (S)   RULES 3CAL  1NR    4/5/93                        
  04/05/93      1105    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  04/05/93      1105    (S)   CRA CS ADOPTED Y11 N9                            
  04/05/93      1106    (S)   AM NO  1 ADOPTED Y11 N9                          
  04/05/93      1106    (S)   COSPONSOR WITHDRAWN:  LINCOLN                    
  04/05/93      1106    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                   
                              CONSENT                                          
  04/05/93      1106    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 42(CRA)                 
                              AM                                               
  04/05/93      1107    (S)   PASSED Y18 N2                                    
  04/05/93      1107    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE SAME AS PASSAGE                   
  04/05/93      1107    (S)   TAYLOR NOTICE OF RECON                           
  04/06/93      1207    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP-IN THIRD READING                  
  04/06/93      1208    (S)   HELD ON RECON TO 4/7/93                          
  04/07/93      1253    (S)   PASSED ON RECON Y11 N9                           
  04/07/93      1254    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y12 N8                     
  04/07/93      1259    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO(H)CSSB42                          
                              (CRA)AM(EFDFLD)                                  
  04/08/93      1101    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  04/08/93      1101    (H)   CRA, STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY,                   
                              FINANCE                                          
  02/03/94              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  02/04/94      2253    (H)   REFERRED TO STATE AFFAIRS                        
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 322                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: REGULATION OF ALCOHOL IN STATE PARKS                            
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOTT, Green                                    
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/03/94      2011    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2011    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2011    (H)   CRA, RESOURCES, HES                              
  01/14/94      2083    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  GREEN                             
  02/03/94              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 397                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: TAXING POWER OF SECOND CLASS CITIES                             
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OLBERG                                         
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/26/94      2153    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/26/94      2153    (H)   COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS,                    
                              FINANCE                                          
  02/01/94              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  02/01/94              (H)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  02/02/94      2218    (H)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE                               
                              INTRODUCED-REFERRALS                             
  02/02/94      2218    (H)   CRA, FINANCE                                     
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-5, SIDE A                                                            
  Number 001                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:04                   
  p.m.  He noted for the record Representatives Willis, Toohey                 
  and Sanders were present and noted that a quorum was                         
  present.                                                                     
  SB 42 - LOCAL SALES TAX ON ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR GEORGE JACKO, SPONSOR OF CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD),                  
  read his Sponsor Statement aloud.  (A copy of his Sponsor                    
  Statement is on file.)  He added, "It allows local                           
  municipalities to have an election to decide whether or not                  
  they want to tax alcohol at a higher level than they tax                     
  other items in the communities.  It is a local option                        
  measure.  The legislation does have the support of the                       
  Alaska Municipal League, as well as the Southwest Alaska                     
  Municipal Conference and the Department of Community and                     
  Regional Affairs, also."                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 074                                                                   
                                                                               
  JIM FISK, DIAMOND JIM'S, KODIAK, testified in opposition to                  
  CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD) via teleconference saying, "We in                  
  Kodiak, are already taxed six percent on our sale of alcohol                 
  or any other goods up to $500 on each sale.  Therefore, the                  
  alcohol industry pays more than their share of taxes in this                 
  community.  We feel that if you were to give the                             
  municipalities that authority, it would begin to change like                 
  the wind...  Let's leave it to the state, let's leave it to                  
  the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board to manage it, and if                    
  you want to impose a tax that's reasonable for everybody,                    
  irregardless of the size of the municipality, please do so.                  
  Do not, I say emphatically, do not, allow the municipalities                 
  to manipulate water, sewer or alcohol."                                      
                                                                               
  Number 124                                                                   
                                                                               
  ALICE JOHNSTONE, SITKA, testified in favor of CSSB 42 (CRA)                  
  AM(EFD FLD) via teleconference saying, "Alcohol's the number                 
  one health problem in our state.  The industry does not pay                  
  the tax.  This is a sales tax and people who use the                         
  alcohol, you and I, and our neighbors will pay this tax."                    
                                                                               
  GARRY LANGILLE, PRESIDENT, KODIAK ISLAND LIQUOR LICENSE                      
  ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference saying, "We                        
  represent 24 businesses on the island...we employ over 350                   
  people directly.  We have been experiencing a general                        
  decline in business over the last number of years in                         
  consumption, which is in line with the national and state                    
  average.  We have at the same time faced large increases in                  
  expenses and taxation and costs, such as liability                           
  insurance, which have not been proportional to other                         
  industries, and we certainly do not need more taxation.  Our                 
  first concern is that we believe that alcohol is a state                     
  regulatory responsibility and should only be dealt with at                   
  the state level.  We will have the possibility of one                        
  municipality adding an additional tax, another not.  Also,                   
  at the municipal level, we are already disproportional to                    
  other businesses in taxation.  We pay, for instance, $1250                   
  for a liquor licensing fee..., $1150 comes back to the                       
  municipality now.  We also, here on Kodiak Island, have a                    
  six percent sales tax which has a $500 cap.  Many (of the                    
  others) car dealerships, bulk fuel, etc. avoid much of that                  
  taxation.  We have to face the tax on all our sales.  It                     
  must be also pointed out that the tax has an effect on one                   
  of the largest growth industry potentials in our State of                    
  Alaska, which is tourism.  My experience has been that a                     
  person who has an alcoholic problem is more affected by                      
  education and peer pressure than cost...  medical cost on                    
  society, etc. are held in our laps.  It's easier to find                     
  that it's someone else's responsibility or someone else's                    
  cost or someone else's fault, not our own.  We all know the                  
  medical costs of obesity and high blood pressure.  Where is                  
  the thought of taxation on sugar, salt and coffee...  Let's                  
  face up and take our own responsibilities for our own                        
  actions..."                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 237                                                                   
                                                                               
  TIM TROLL, CITY ADMINISTRATOR, CITY OF SAND POINT, testified                 
  via teleconference, in favor of CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EDF FLD)                    
  saying, "We have two bars in Sand Point and one liquor                       
  store, and we have found that probably a disproportionate                    
  number of our police calls, emergency medical calls are all                  
  directly related to alcohol.  Right now we do levy a two                     
  percent sales tax, generally across the board, but I think                   
  we would like to have the option available to us as a local                  
  community to actually tax the substance that does seem to                    
  cause most of our public safety problems.  This would really                 
  not so much be a tax on alcohol...certainly, if the                          
  community is voting in favor of this, they are voting                        
  basically to tax themselves at a higher rate for alcohol.                    
  ...those people in the industry who are concerned...about                    
  whether it's a fair or not fair tax will have their                          
  opportunity to make that point in any sort of referendum on                  
  the sales tax issue."                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 348                                                                   
                                                                               
  KENT SWISHER, ALASKA MUNICIPAL LEAGUE testified in support                   
  of CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EDF FLD) saying, "It is a viable revenue                 
  source.  It is appropriately linked to what is one of the                    
  larger probable causes of problems and larger causes of                      
  police services..."                                                          
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG noted that Representative Davies joined the                  
  meeting at 1:16 p.m. and Representative Bunde joined the                     
  meeting at 1:17 p.m.                                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY asked, "Is it normal for                       
  municipalities to dedicate a tax to a specific (purpose)?"                   
                                                                               
  MR. SWISHER replied, "Normally, these would be regarded as a                 
  general fund revenue source and would not be committed to a                  
  specific function within the general fund, such as police                    
  service or something of that nature.  However, we're simply                  
  aware of the utilization of services stemming from alcohol                   
  consumption..."                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 374                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY continued, "Are there other                            
  municipalities that have imposed a higher tax on alcohol?"                   
                                                                               
  MR. SWISHER said, "There are, to the best of my                              
  recollection, some 18 Alaska municipalities that levy a                      
  local sales tax now, while they don't differentiate between                  
  alcohol and other products.  Each of them does define it's                   
  own base, to what shall the tax apply...so to that extent,                   
  that kind of judgment has been made."                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG noted that Representative Williams had                       
  joined the meeting at 1:25 p.m.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 412                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked, "Can you show me how a                     
  vote of the people is required?"                                             
                                                                               
  BRYCE EDGMON, LEGISLATIVE STAFF, SENATOR GEORGE JACKO,                       
  testified saying, "I've worked with the bill drafter on                      
  this, Mr. Ford from Legal Services, and that is a question                   
  that hasn't been proposed before, but he assures me that                     
  will occur before this would have to be implemented.  But                    
  that is an obvious question that has never been posed                        
  before."                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'm presuming that it must                      
  somehow be in some other portion of statute."                                
                                                                               
  MR. EDGMON offered to retrieve that information.                             
                                                                               
  Number 436                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS asked, "Do I understand that                    
  this could possibly apply to the municipality of Anchorage?"                 
                                                                               
  MR. EDGMON said yes and, "We had amended the bill last year                  
  in committee to apply to only communities under 2,500.  It                   
  got amended on the floor of the Senate to include all                        
  communities."                                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS continued, "I think it's a lot better                 
  for these smaller communities, the ones I know of, to vote                   
  themselves dry, and I would think in a vote to go dry, this                  
  would force some of the people in order to get the money for                 
  the community to vote to keep it wet."                                       
                                                                               
  SENATOR JACKO said, "Having lived in small communities all                   
  my life, I really couldn't conceive of that happening.  It                   
  just doesn't seem like a likely scenario to me, but to the                   
  extent that local communities do have the ability to tax                     
  alcohol right now, this would allow it at a higher sales                     
  rate.  You may be able to have a say, two percent higher                     
  sales tax on alcohol if this bill would pass.  If you                        
  didn't, you could still raise five percent, or whatever, if                  
  you raised everything."                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG pointed out, "You could in theory raise                      
  everything and exempt food.  There are all kinds of                          
  different things you can do.  ...dry is good, but dry                        
  doesn't happen."                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 474                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS asked, "What municipalities are                     
  allowed to do this.  Are we saying any one of them can?"                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said any.                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS continued, "Would this tend to                         
  override home rule charters?"                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I don't believe it would.  There's a                  
  provision for a sales tax and this simply liberalizes that                   
  provision, is my observation."                                               
                                                                               
  MR. EDGMON said, "A broad definition of municipality would                   
  encompass a home rule community or borough."                                 
                                                                               
  Number 489                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I support the observation.  I                   
  think that this is framed under the work `may' and not                       
  `shall' and so it's left up to the discretion of each                        
  community to decide whether or not they want to do this.                     
  Presumably if we get the statement back that it requires a                   
  vote of the folks to approve that.  So it just allows the                    
  municipalities the flexibility."                                             
                                                                               
  Number 500                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. EDGMON said, "I just talked to the bill drafter and he                   
  assured me that the provision was inherent in Title 29 and                   
  it wouldn't appear in the bill itself...AS 29.45.560."                       
                                                                               
  Number 513                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS moved that CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD                 
  FLD) pass out of committee with individual recommendations.                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY objected for the purposes of                           
  discussion and said, "I support this bill as long as we have                 
  that satisfied, because I agree with you that the                            
  municipalities should have the right to do it, but I also                    
  agree that people in that community proceed the municipality                 
  and they should have more right than their municipalities,                   
  as the state should have less right than the municipalities.                 
  As long as that is satisfied, that it is done by a vote by                   
  the people in that community and not by a municipality, then                 
  I support this bill," and withdrew her objection.                            
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG then stated that with the objection removed,                 
  CSSB 42 (CRA) AM(EFD FLD) moved out of committee without                     
  objection.  HB 322 was brought forth before the committee.                   
  HB 322 - REGULATION OF ALCOHOL IN STATE PARKS                                
                                                                               
  Number 534                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT, SPONSOR OF HB 322, testified                       
  saying, "What this bill is intended on doing is to direct                    
  the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to evaluate                        
  whether or not the use of possession of alcohol in a state                   
  park or a public facility, such as a historic site is                        
  compatible with public peace, health and safety of the                       
  occupants that are also at that park.  We're really not                      
  doing very much.  Right now the department has the authority                 
  via regulations and has in fact, exercised that authority                    
  from time to time."  He then referred the committee to AS                    
  29.05.                                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT continued, "Whereby the department has                   
  in fact, prohibited the use of alcohol in several locations                  
  actually...  So this bill is not a prohibition bill.  Site                   
  by site specific, they will evaluate the individual parks                    
  and historic sites and make a determination.  We're asking                   
  them to make that determination within a year.  It is a very                 
  simple bill.  We're only codifying and firming up, what I                    
  believe the department already has, by regulation and                        
  statute.  In essence, by amending AS 41.21, we are giving                    
  them a little more direction and narrowing the scope of                      
  things now."                                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked if he had been addressing the CS or                    
  the original bill.                                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said, "There was a last minute                           
  submission by the department and we included one of the                      
  items that we completely agreed with.  I think that was more                 
  of an oversight than anything else.  In the original bill,                   
  we used just the term alcohol.  The point is, we are trying                  
  to limit...to alcoholic beverage use...we changed the title                  
  to reflect that as well."                                                    
                                                                               
  There was a small discussion as to the statutory definition                  
  of alcoholic beverages.                                                      
                                                                               
  PETER PANARESE, CHIEF, FIELD OPERATIONS, DIVISION OF PARKS                   
  AND OUTDOOR RECREATION, DIVISION OF NATURAL RESOURCES,                       
  testified via teleconference in favor of HB 322.  His                        
  testimony is difficult to discern on tape.  (A copy of his                   
  written testimony is on file.)                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said, "I support Representative                       
  Kott's intent with this bill...my only problem...where it                    
  says use or possession.  In a park if I have a six pack of                   
  beer in my motor home in the refrigerator, am I guilty of                    
  possession?  ...where's it limited?"                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said, "My intent is not to limit to                      
  those circumstances the possession of alcohol.  If you drive                 
  into a state park parking lot in a motor home and you have a                 
  bottle of alcohol in your vehicle - this is not the intent,                  
  to try and intrude into your vehicle to acquire the alcohol                  
  and determine that you're in violation."                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "Do you not have the enforcement                 
  ability at this time if someone is using alcohol illegally                   
  that you could arrest them?"                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE said, "At this time, many areas of the state                    
  parks, people who use beer and drink in conjunction with                     
  other recreation activities in areas where there's not                       
  prohibition, the situation becomes difficult for us when the                 
  person is involved in a group activity and there are                         
  alcoholic beverages everywhere and the party is beginning.                   
  At that point, we have no ability to intervene.  We can't                    
  arrest unless we have the scene created."                                    
                                                                               
  Number 672                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "What it sounds like is they're                   
  asking for the right of prior restraint.  `You look                          
  suspicious, you look like you might become a drunk, so we're                 
  going to run you off.'  I'm sorry, but you're asking to put                  
  something in state statute here that is going to be                          
  interpreted by a lot of different people, and I'm a little                   
  concerned that parks people have a little too much power to                  
  limit the people's use of their parks now."                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "This is only within state                      
  parks?"                                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE said, "...limited to the Alaska State Park                      
  system."                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'm considering offering an                     
  amendment that would insert the word `public' in front of                    
  `possession' everywhere," and directed his question towards                  
  Mr. Panarese.                                                                
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE said that amendment would be "acceptable".                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I would offer this as an                        
  amendment then.  That everywhere in this bill where it says                  
  `use' or `possession' to insert the word `public' prior."                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT consented to the proposed amendment.                     
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-5, SIDE B                                                            
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Are there sites or areas                       
  within the parks that will allow for a wedding or some type                  
  of festivities where you would permit liquor day use."                       
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE said, "That is a common request of state parks                  
  and it's one that we accommodate.  The wedding party can get                 
  a permit from us..."                                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY continued, "So this will not impact                    
  that..."                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE said, "It's something we can manage and have                    
  done for a few years in a reasonable way."                                   
                                                                               
  Number 028                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS said, "I feel like we're                        
  getting more regulations in here and I don't know if it's                    
  really needed.  I think the State of Alaska is overregulated                 
  now as it is."                                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said, "I believe there is quite a bit of                 
  problem in state parks and historic site recreational areas.                 
  It may not be so much in the rural areas, but we have a                      
  tremendous problem around the Anchorage area...Big Lake                      
  area.  There's a lot of vandalism that is done and primarily                 
  we're looking at people who are abusing alcohol and what                     
  they would consider just having a good time, but it's                        
  causing a lot of damage to the parks and services."                          
                                                                               
  MR. PANARESE rendered some of his experiences as a ranger                    
  with park visitors under the influence of alcohol.  He                       
  stressed, "The majority of our park visitors don't have a                    
  problem with this.  It's a tool for us to use to control the                 
  behavior of people who are coming to us for the simple                       
  purpose of having a large, uncontrolled party with alcohol                   
  right in the middle of it.  If we can prohibit that use, we                  
  go a long way of stopping trouble before it starts."                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES concurred, "I've had complaints called                 
  into my office about misuse of parks that relate to alcohol                  
  abuse in the Fairbanks area, and I've also personally                        
  witnessed a number of situations that I would consider                       
  abusive of the `peace'.  So I support this as the park                       
  rangers having the tools to deal with it."                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG acknowledged the points brought forth by                     
  Representatives Bunde, Williams and Davies.                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE acknowledged the vandalism and drunken                  
  driving but cautioned, "Now you're going to have some part                   
  time park ranger who's going to be walking among these                       
  people deciding which ones will potentially be drunks and                    
  should then be run off...and which ones are a group of folks                 
  that are going to sit down and have a picnic and drink a                     
  six-pack...  We are innocent until proven guilty."                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said, "We hardly have the numbers out                    
  there, rangers, to do just that.  Only two are parks, the                    
  rest are what I would consider historical sites.  There's a                  
  lot of historical value there...there may be some value to                   
  placing those off limits to the use of alcohol."                             
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG called a brief at ease at 1:59 p.m.  The                     
  meeting continued at 2:02 p.m.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 179                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS moved that the committee substitute                   
  be adopted.  There were no objections.                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES moved to amend the committee                           
  substitute for HB 322 "by inserting the word `public' in                     
  front of `possession' everywhere the phrase `use or                          
  possession' appears in this bill."                                           
                                                                               
  There were no objections.                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS moved that the committee substitute                   
  for HB 322 as amended be passed from committee with                          
  individual recommendations.                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE objected.  A role call vote was taken.                  
  Representative Bunde and Williams voted not to move the                      
  amended CSHB 322 out of committee with individual                            
  recommendations.  Representatives Sanders, Davies, Toohey,                   
  Willis and Olberg voted to move the amended CSHB 322 out of                  
  committee.                                                                   
  HB 397 - TAXING POWER OF SECOND CLASS CITIES                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG brought forth SSHB 397 and announced that                    
  this  sponsor substitute had been read across the floor on                   
  February 2, 1994, since the last time this bill had been                     
  before the committee.                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES moved that the original bill be                        
  brought before the committee as a committee substitute                       
  because "in the original bill, there is a requirement for a                  
  public vote and I would support the bill if that remained in                 
  there."                                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG objected.                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS said, "I concur with Representative                    
  Davies' conclusion.  I do support the motion before us...to                  
  allow the people a chance to vote on it.  We're talking                      
  about second class cities.  As the years go by, the                          
  differences between the first and second class cities are                    
  beginning to narrow.  There's very few differences...and I                   
  think one of the strong points for a lot of people that                      
  voted to have municipalities implemented, one of the strong                  
  reasons they vote for it, is the fact they still feel they                   
  have control over the taxation process.  And that is by a                    
  vote of the people."                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 328                                                                   
                                                                               
  The role was taken on Representative Davies' motion to adopt                 
  the original bill as the committee substitute in lieu of the                 
  sponsor substitute.  Representatives Toohey, Davies, Willis                  
  voted yes on the motion.  Representatives Bunde, Sanders,                    
  Williams, Olberg voted no on the motion.  Then                               
  Representative Toohey changed her vote.  The sponsor                         
  substitute remained the bill before the committee.                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I would just note that this is                  
  not a requirement under cities right now, but it is a                        
  requirement at this point in time for boroughs...a new sales                 
  tax, use tax or increase in the rate of levy of sales tax                    
  does not take effect unless ratified by the majority of                      
  voters.  So this principle does apply in general to                          
  boroughs, but apparently not in cities."                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved that the sponsor substitute for                   
  HB 397 be moved from committee with individual                               
  recommendations.                                                             
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES objected to the motion.                                
                                                                               
  A role call was taken.  Representatives Williams, Sanders,                   
  Toohey, Bunde and Olberg voted yes.  Representatives Willis                  
  and Davies voted no.  The motion passed.                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 2:19 p.m.                           

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